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Author Topic: Why Aug Dex on a Thane is a waste of RAs....  (Read 3761 times)

Alfhild

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Why Aug Dex on a Thane is a waste of RAs....
« on: February 12, 2013, 07:42:42 am »

Reference: http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?23-Dex-break-points

Intro:  First, let me point out that I'm not saying DEX is a waste on a thane: it's not.  Your template should have DEX in it (mine has 101 DEX). My argument (below) is that you have better things to spend RAs on, than Aug DEX. Even as a frosty "caster thane," you'll get more bang-for-your-buck going for MoM, WP, etc. rather than Aug DEX. But, I'm getting ahead of myself.  Read on!

Here's the basic premise: If you cast more quickly, then you can get in more casts in a given amount of time. More casts in a given amount of time, means more damage. More damage is good. My argument is you're better off spending your RA's on MoM, WP, and AA, than Aug Dex. Aug Dex will do nothing to increase the damage of your insta-cast spells. MoM WP and AA will increase the damage of all your spells, regardless of their dex break point.

I play a hybrid thane: I use melee and spells, depending on the situation. While I tend to respec my RAs constantly, I tend to go for a mix of offense-and-defense. I know some thanes who lean towards melee, using instas for interrupts and a bit more damage, and Hammers (AoE) situationally. I know some other thanes who like to call themselves "Caster" Thanes. While, sure, all thanes need to cast appropriately to be effective, I urge all "Caster" thanes to look at few basics before thinking they're all that and a bag o' chips with super high dex.

The numbers:
Command Mjollnir is a Thane's highest AoE hammer spell. aka. "Hammers."  It has a 3.0 casting time. Dex breaks for a 3.0 spell are 338, and 374. (Debuff is also 3.0 spell.) Meaning, you'll notice (at least on paper) that you cast the spell faster if you have 338 or higher dex, and fastest if you have 374 or higher dex.

Assuming 10% casting speed bonus, at 337 Dex, cast time for 100 3.0 second spells is 158.4 (1.584 seconds/cast). At 338-373 Dex, that time is reduced to 149.8-141.6 (1.498 to 1.416). At 374 dex, that time is reduced to 127.6 (1.276 seconds per cast).

Let's say you get to spam hammers for 20 seconds without being interrupted (good luck with that). Below the first break point, you're looking at 12 hammers (12.6, but, who's counting?).  At 338 Dex, you're looking at 13 hammers.  So, that's one better, or about 8 percent more damage. (Alf did math!). At 374, that's 15 Hammers or about 20% more damage.

So, not a huge gain going to 338. But, for those Mathletes out there, 374 does show a significant boost.  But, at what cost?

First, lets look at the max dex for a Thane by race. This assumes 101 Dex in template, 18 points dex at creation (that's right, 18 Dex, costing you 29 creation points), and aug dex 9 (+48 dex), and max buffs.

Max Thane Dex:
Frostalf 377
Norse, Dwarf, Mino 372
Troll 357

Of the thane races, only Frostalf can hit the 374 dex break point without using a DEX Mythirian (update: or one of the new Mythical Dex items...). And, doing so requires spending 34 RA points on aug dex 9, and pumpling most of their creation points into dex.  So, less STR/CON/QUI (possibly PIE), in order to hit 374 for a Frosty.  Now, if you really want to do that, go for it.  But, if you want to be a ranged caster, might I suggest rolling a Runemaster? Not only will you do more damage, but you won't have the "shoot, I'm out-of-power" issues that a hybrid caster who spams spells may experience. 

So, yeah, Norse, Dwarf, Mino could hit 374 using a Dex Mythirian (or some of the new Mythical Dex items...), but let's not worry about that. Keep reading.

For non-Frosty Thanes, hitting the first break point of 338 would be 10 points of Dex at Character Creation (reasonable), and Aug Dex 5 (assuming 101 Dex in template), at a cost of 10 RAs. You could spend those same 10 RA points on MoM, for an 8% boost that would affect *all* of your damage spells--instas and single-target. For my money, go for MoM if you want the boost--it's more bang for your buck since it will boost all of your spells. When you're low RR, don't worry too much about Aug DEX at all--get Purge IV or 5, get Static Tempest 3 or higher...when you can, 338 is fine, you don't need 374.  Really.

I'd say, shoot for 338 Dex for debuff and Hammers when you're high enough RR to afford it, and call it good.
If you really want to single-target spam cast, single-target dex break is 350.


As a Thane you have lots of things to spend RAs on. LW1 (of course) and whatever level of Purge you feel you need are typically top-of-the-list. Static Tempest (at least level 2, preferably 3-or-higher) is a must-have. One level of Mastery of Concentration and you can interrupt enemies very well in siege situations. On the defensive side, IP, Toughness, AoM, MoB (or MoP if you're a 2-hander) and Det can help.

For casting "oompf," might I suggest some points in Wild Power? Can give the extra boost needed at times.  Duel-threat is also good, with spare points in MoM or whatever.  I like MoF 2, to make sure that when I'm casting I don't get resisted. And Wrath of Champions is fun if you're running with a Bomb Group.  Unless you're a Troll, some Aug STR can help lay the smack down when swinging your weapon.

NOTE: If you're spending any RAs on aug Dex, MoM, WP or AA before you have Mastery of Focus II--and your goal is spell damage--then you're silly.  MoF2 and you'll hit more often, which is better DPS than hitting harder, but for fewer hits.

Conclusion:   So, when all is said and done, if you want to primarily cast as a thane--GO FOR IT!  However, you don't need to bend-over-backwards to hit dex break points or get 101 DEX/PIE in your template, as there are better things you can spend your RAs and creation points on, and easier and more effect ways to template.

Frosty thane wants to have 338+ dex and pump some into MoM, WP, AA? Alrighty. Go for it! Just don't need to kill yourself to get to 374. If you really think spending 34 RA points on Aug Dex to get to Aug Dex 9, um, you're silly.

And if any of you Frosty "Caster" Thanes with 101 Dex/Pie, 10/10/10 speed/damage/range and 10% spell pierce want to duel me, let me know. I'll interrupt your casting and kill you with my hammer and shield before I finish explaining why doing every thing you can to get 10% Spell Pierce on a Thane template is silly.  But, that's another topic....

And, for the most bang-for-your-buck RA's for casting damage...check out the following chart.




HOW TO READ THIS CHART: The number in the first column, is the number or RPs you have to spend. The number in the second column, is the number of cumulative +% you get to damage if you spend those RA's as listed in the final three columns (Mastery of Magery, Aug Acuity, and Wild Power). For example, if you spend 30 RPs, and train to 5 in MOM, WP and AA, you'll have a cumulative damage bonus of 18%.



RP COST__CUM % BONUS____MOM_____AA______WP
1________2_______________1________0________0
2________3_______________2________0________0
3________3.9_____________2________1________0
4________4.8_____________2________2________0
5________5.7_____________2________2________1
6________6.6_____________2________2________2
8________7.6_____________3________2________2
10_______8.5_____________3________3________2
12_______9.4_____________3________3________3
15_______11.4____________4________3________3
18_______13.4____________5________3________3
21_______14.6____________5________3________4
24_______15.8____________5________3________5
27_______16.9____________5________4________5
30_______18______________5________5________5
35_______20______________6________5________5
40_______22______________7________5________5
45_______23.57___________7________5________6
50_______25______________7________5________7
55_______26.4____________7________6________7
60_______27.8____________7________7________7
67_______29.8____________8________7________7
74_______31.8____________9________7________7
81_______33.6____________9________7________8
88_______35.4____________9________7________9
95_______36.9____________9________8________9
102______38.5____________9________9________9
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 05:37:00 am by Alfhild »
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Xiang

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Re: Why Aug Dex on a Thane is a waste of RAs....
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2013, 08:07:17 am »

More or less same feelings I have for %10 spell pierce SB's that refuse to see they are gimping somewhere else to get that.
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Alfhild

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Re: Why Aug Dex on a Thane is a waste of RAs....
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 12:25:52 pm »

And, I'm not saying no dex.  It's good to have 90-101 in template.  But, just too expensive to hit worthy break points to bother with aug dex.  Assuming dex around 300 when buffed, you're good-to-go.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 07:07:40 am by Alfhild »
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